Breakdown (Amazon)

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Voyage. Welcome to watch this tonight. I'm your host, An Bettimore.

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I'm a producd writer of film and
television and now a podcast producer. And

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despite having every streaming service, I
never know what to watch. So anytime

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I watch something good, I talk
about it on the show. This way,

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you'll never have the same problem I
do. I watched this tonight.

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There's always something good to watch.
Let's get started, all right. Today

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on the show, we're doing one
of our all star episodes about the film

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Breakdown. I am honored and thrilled
to have Jonathan Fernandez, who is one

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of the producers of the film,
and Jonathan also wrote and produced Rob the

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Mob with Michael Pitt, Andy Garcia
and Ray Romano. And I was just

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telling you I've been having a little
mini film festival of your films because when

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I when we connected, you were
like, you should watch Rob the Mob

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too, And I had remembered when
it came out and I had missed it

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for whatever reason. And I have. I think I have like half an

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hour left and I'm loving it.
It's so fun, it has such a

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great energy to it. Um It's
we could almost do a whole separate episode

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of Rob the Mob, but it's
it has an amazing cast, just a

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stacked cast, and it's totally a
bit like Breakdown that we're gonna talk about

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today, one of the movies that
they don't really make anymore. So for

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people, if anybody who hasn't seen
Rob the Mob separately from this, go

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watch that movie. It's on Amazon
on the freevie thing. You can watch

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it for free if you have Amazon. Yeah. Rob the Mob was great

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fun to make, and Breakdown was
great fun to make. I really am

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very lucky and fortunate working with two
amazing directors, Jonathan Mostow and Ray Defalita.

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Yeah, Ray to Falida, by
the way, and Rob the Moob

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did a great job. There's a
there was a moment there's a shot of

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like, um, I think it's
Nina Arianda standing and she's silhouetted against the

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setting sun as money is floating in
the air, and I was like,

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wow, who directed this movie?
So yes, the big recommendation for that.

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I do want to tell people also
the sort of hilarious way that we

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connected after a fashionable two year delay. Had I had tweeted at you what

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I had my old show movies.
I love to know what talks about to

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do an episode of Breakdown, and
then you liked my it was funny.

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I was like, I saw it
was like you liked my tweet from like

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two years ago. I was like, oh, that's funny. And then

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you had a message to me and
you were like, am I too late?

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And I fortunately I have another show
where I talked about movies, So

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here we are two years it because
like that it's a global pandemic. What

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happened? All good? What I
missed on this particular show. When we

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do older stuff, we do it
as a watch This Night All Star meeting.

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A movie that you can watch again
and again, and it's the years

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passed you look at it differently.
And it was really interesting rewatching Breakdown with

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that in mind, because I don't
know when the last time you saw it

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was, but watching it now,
especially with the stunt work I think particularly,

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which is sort of a weird thing
about it, but because of where

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we've gone with how action is done. When you if you go watch Breakdown

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today, you feel like you're watching
Tom Cruise hanging on the side of the

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airplane, like there's stuff going on. You're like, how did they do

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this? Because we're so used to
everything being done with the computer. Yeah,

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I rewatched it today and I have
to tell you, the biggest thing

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was how awesome the effects look because
they're real. They're all practical. Like

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Kurt Russell is hanging off the side
of the truck, off the side of

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the truck, is hanging off the
side of the bridge, and when he's

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in the water, he's in the
water. So it's kind of crazy when

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I think there's something about the human
brain that you know when something's real,

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Like you know, over millions of
years of evolution, you can tell when

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something's real and when something's fake.
And I think intuitively, you look at

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that and you go, how Kurt
Russell was hanging off the side of a

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truck on the side of a bridge. Holy cow, he's in the middle

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of the river, floating down.
That is all real. That was all

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done practical, And I almost feel
like watching it, it's kind of the

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last old school movie that way.
You would not do a movie of that

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size of that budget today practical.
It would all be cgi. And I

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think it's very difficult to get that
sense of hanging and all the physicality and

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all the muscles in the actor to
be just right, and I do kind

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of think that movie is like kind
of the end of an era. Yeah.

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You know, there's an ai art
app it's called mid Journey, and

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I used it for a pitch deck
for something. And the premise of the

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thing that I used it for was
it was basically aliens pretending to be human,

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and so there's something a little bit
off, and mid Journey is actually

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perfect for that because if you just
type in a mid journey a happy couple

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in bed next to each other,
the art that you will get back ai

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R is frightening. It's not like
you can tell that something is wrong and

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you can't put your finger on it, but you could sort of tell this

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is not something is weird about this. And I think visual effects, no

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matter how sophisticated they are, are
kind of the same thing. Like you

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said, like people can just tell. Yeah. I think that's right,

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and I think just intuitively, your
muscles are moving differently, there's a little

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bit of fear that like that is
just genuine like I think everything's gonna go

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right, but I don't know that
everything's going to go right the actor is

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experiencing. In other words, Kurt
Russell when you're hanging off the side of

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a thing. You really hope your
stunt team really has their act together,

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you think, finger And I will
tell you I was on set for that

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final chase scene and I was like, where do I want to stand?

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Because I knew it was like cars
gonna be flying and eighteen wheelers flying and

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trucks flying. And I was like, I'm going to stand behind the camera

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cruit because those guys know what's gonna
happen. And I'm standing behind them,

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and all of a sudden, the
car goes flying up in the air.

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It doesn't flip. The front bumper, which is metal again, old school,

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not like the kind of plastic bumpers
of today's cars, but a metal

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truck bumper goes flying in the air, and all of a sudden, it's

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gonna it's coming at me, It's
coming at the camera crew. We all

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camera crew included hit the deck because
we were gonna be decapitated. It was

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real. It was unpredictable in a
way that none of us could have desk

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where that was gonna go. And
I think that kind of randomness keeps the

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actor, keeps the crew, keeps
everyone on their toes, you know,

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There's a movie that they made with
Jar Butler. It's called Last Scene Alive,

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and it actually hit number one on
Netflix, and it's I think it's

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a really useful comparison to this film. So that movie is basically Jar Butler

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goes to like a gas station and
the wife disappears, and now he's got

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to go find his wife. And
I liked the movie. I did an

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episode on it, like I thought
it was fun, but it was not

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people are the realities. I don't
think people will be talking about that movie

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even six months from now. And
I was trying to sort of isolate down

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on why because it's pretty similar to
Breakdown in terms of the premise, Right,

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It's kind of like a seemingly regular
guy, you know, loses his

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wife, has to go find her. There's a little bit of like a

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backwoods quality to it, which also
was a Breakdown. And I was like,

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why is Breakdown sort of I think
stood the test of time, whereas

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that movie probably will not send the
test of time. And I think part

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of it is just the really really
high quality of the execution. And I

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was trying to figure out what where
that comes from and maybe where we've lost

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that in streaming because Breakdown is very
well written, like it is not this

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is not a tossed off thing.
Like there's a lot of moments, and

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I want to actually call out one, particularly because it was one of the

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only things that I had remembered vividly
from the first time I saw the film.

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JT. Walsh. You know,
they kidnapped Kurt Russell's wife obviously spoiler

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alert U And then JT. Walsh
eventually comes clean about it. Obviously was

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Sam that did it, and etc. And he has this moment where he's

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talking about Kathleen Quinland and he's describing
her to Kurt Russell in a very sexualized

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way that is grotesque, And even
the first time I saw it and then

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seeing it now it's like, sir, I was like, how dare you

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talking about Kathleen Quinland like that?
But it was very well written, like

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it was written impeccably, And at
the end of it he says, you

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know, if you let the cops
know, I'll send you pieces of her

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from time to time, which is
a great line. So it's just it

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evokes development, like people really worked
and cared about the script. So could

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you talk about like maybe like from
your perspective where there might be a difference

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there in terms of these processes.
So first of all, you know,

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you have to give huge, huge, huge credit to Jonathan Mostow and Sam

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Montgomery who wrote the screenplay and all
of that, all of that, all

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of that was in their first draft. And as Jonathan Mostow will tell you

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it, Kurt Russell will tell you
it's exhausting playing Jonathan Mostow because that all

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of that paranoia, all of that
that comes from John Mostow, and it's

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very much his worldview how he sees, you know, everything, and so

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all of that was on the page. All of that was on the page.

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So when I first read the script, it was just, you know,

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holy cow, it was a tight
script from the very beginning. And

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Mostow will tell you that, you
know, he was marketing back to you

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know, Spielberg's first film, like
Duel. So films like that are all

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part of the tradition. And then
I think the other thing that, well,

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what's the difference is, well,
you had one of the world's greatest

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producers, literally one of the greatest
producers of all time in Dino de Laurentis.

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I mean, Dina de Laurentis is
a legend. He's the guy who

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started in Italy after the war,
produced Lestradas, produced a Bitter Rice.

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I mean, just an amazing,
amazing filmmaker, and this story really spoke

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to him. In one hundred percent. Dino got behind this film. And

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you know, there are scenes in
that film of like when Kurt Russell goes

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to the police station and he sees
all the missing people the posters up on

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that was Dino. Dino really felt
that, and Dino's vision was started right

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from the beginning with the casting.
So one of my favorite stories was when

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I was head of production for Dino's
company and he said to me, Jonathan,

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you know who'd be great for this
movie, he says to me,

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and he says, Coralozo. And
so this is again kind of pre internet

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days, and I was new.
We didn't really have a shorthand Dino and

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I and so I go back to
my office and I pull out books you

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know you had to look up.
And I'm thinking, I don't know this

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Cardo Looso person, and he must
be some Italian cinematographer who I don't know.

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And I'm calling my friends at all
the agencies I need to get Cardo

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Looso and everyone's like, I don't
know who you're talking about. So I

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go back into Dina's office and I
say, Dino, I'm really sorry,

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I don't know who this Coodo Looso
person is, but I really want to

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find him for you, And Dino
says, looks at me, just completely

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dismissive. He goes, how you
be in the movie business, and no,

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no, the Coto Loza. Everybody
knows the Cardo Looso. So now

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I double down on this, and
finally I go into Dino's wife, Martha's

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office, and I say, Martha, I am so sorry, but I've

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looked everywhere and I cannot find this
Cardo Looso person. And I know everyone

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must know, and I'm sure he's
super important in Italian cinema, but who

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is this? And she looks at
me and she goes, I don't know

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what you're talking about. So now
Martha and I go into Dino's office and

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Martha asked him, Dino, Dino, who is Cardo Loso and Dino goes,

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Coudo Looso, hell of them?
And finally we understood it was Kurt

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Russell that was that was who he
wanted for the film, and again that

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was Dino. And Dino was the
one who made the offer on the salary

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for Kurt Russell. He offered Kurt
his previous salary, which I believe at

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the time was eight million dollars,
and he offered it to Rick Nasita,

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and Rick offered it to Kurt,
and Kurt said, I love the script.

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I'm just I want to take the
spring off. Dino thought about it.

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He then offered ten million dollars to
Rick Nasita, and and and and

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finally, uh, Dino de Laurentis
offered fifteen million dollars to Kurt Russell,

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and Kurt Russell came into our office
the following day with Rick agreed to do.

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It meant with John Mostow, and
that was Dino. I mean,

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so when you say why don't movies
like Get That get made, it's because

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Dino de Laurentis willed that film into
being. It's absolutely Jonathan Mostow's vision,

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it's absolutely his talent, his writing, his directing. But it was you

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know, you talk about the power
of a producer. I mean, I

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don't know of many producers today who
are at that Dino de Laurentius level.

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I remember vividly. I had a
meeting. Um. It was me,

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Nicholas Cages manager UM and then two
different teams of producers for a particular project.

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And we had we spent I'm sure
it was at least an hour.

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I think the director was there too, UM, just going over notes in

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the script and they were good notes
and they'd like toil script apart. And

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we walked out of that meeting and
I was like, I don't think Nicholas

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is doing this movie. And then
the next day they were like, we've

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put X amount in escrow and and
he's up not doing anyway. But it

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just goes to show you, Um, this is the part of it that

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people don't really understand. This is
casting. Casting is basically. I mean

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I've had I had a Radioto movie
like this. I had a bunch of

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movies. In fact, I think
most of the movies where we've had a

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are involved. They first said no, They usually say no, and then

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depending on the producer, sometimes the
producer will just refuse to accept no,

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and they'll just go back and say
what did you want more money? Do

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you want less time? And the
like? Does he have to be there

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for a week? What do we
have to do? And yeah, it's

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like if you have that person who
just refuses to accept no. And even

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in this is where it's like this
where it was a good script, it's

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just all right, fine, how
much money do we need until finally this

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is actually going to happen? And
you got there. Yeah, And then

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we tried with Kurt Russell with Jonathan
Mostow directing with the script, and we

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had half the financing from Spelling.
First we went to Warner Brothers, and

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Warner Brothers committed to it, and
then Warner Brothers dropped out, so we

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literally were going into production. And
I will say that when we couldn't get

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anyone, we went to every studio
in town. They all passed. And

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Dina to make up the budget shortfall
of Warner Brothers having dropped out, he

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mortgaged his own home to come up
with the production funds. I mean,

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think of another producer who would do
that, who would just literally mortgage his

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home to get the funds to do
it, And he did. He literally

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mortgaged his own funds, so his
own home. So it's just kind of

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crazy when you think about that level
of commitment, that amount of faith and

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belief. And John Moss down in
the script in the film. Yeah,

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it's crazy. And it's not the
first time I've heard a story like that

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either, which shows you how terrible
this business is. If you have any

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interest to do anything else, listener, go to something else, and I

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will tell you this. So,
after I produced Breakdown, I started writing

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and I wrote the film Robbed the
Mob. And I would go to these

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meetings and people would hear that I
had been the executive producer on Breakdown,

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and they would say to me,
and this was just crazy. They would

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say to me, Breakdown, now, Breakdown, that's exactly the type of

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movie we'd want to make. And
it took all my self control and all

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of those kind of water bottle needings
to say, I think to you,

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I came to your boss two years
ago when the script with Kurt Russell with

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half the funding and they all had
passed on it. And so you know,

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everyone loves to Monday Morning quarterback.
Everyone loves to say that, oh,

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after Breakdown open number one at the
box office. That's the type of

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movie we would want. But in
the moment with the script with the actor,

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with the director, nobody, nobody, nobody would kill to it.

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But they all said it a year
later when I was going out with Rob

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the mob Now that's the kind of
movie we want to make. Was hilarious.

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Is it's not like it's like a
Fellini like art film, Like it's

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a very commercial movie. So it's
just funny. I thought. Also,

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what was interesting and rewatching it is
that I had forgotten is very much like

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a Western, like the themes of
it, you know, civilization versus savagery.

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You know, the idea that in
Westerns a big thing is civilized society

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versus like they have the town where
they're trying to be civilized. Then they're

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faced with some sort of threat that
the town that is civilized not able to

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handle, and so that's when they
need the guy with the gun to solve

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that problem. And that's the whole
ethos. So basically ninety percent of Westerns,

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and in this it's like the modern
version of that where her Russell and

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they make a big point, you
know, the Benetton sweater and all that

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kind of thing, and he's he's
even he even says some stuff that's sort

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of pejorative about the locals and andys
they set up that he is very much

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like a guy from the city,
and it's like, great, get twenty

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miles outside of the city, nobody
gives a shit. And this, by

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the way, has not disappeared from
an American life. I produced a podcast

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called Borderline, which the true crime
show about a crime that happened in a

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small town in Texas and the geography
of it that hasn't really changed, meaning

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that that town today is still you
have to go like ninety miles to get

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to the next town. And there's
places like that in America and I don't

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care how civilized you are, where
at a certain point you're sort of on

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your own. And that's what's great
about the premise is that the second the

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car breaks down and he's by himself
and the wife's gone, You're like,

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what is that's it? He's on
it, like how the hell is he

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going to get out of this?
And uh, And it has a real

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edge to it that I think also
again has been sanded down over the years,

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and we don't see movies that much
anymore that our mainstream movies that have

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the edge that this has. I
totally agree. I also think that John

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Moscow was sort of prescient in again
that nineties where the whole world kind of

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the middle of the country. There's
a lot of jobs that are lost that

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and when you actually I've thought about
obviously I've thought about this movie way too

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much, but I have thought like, well, what really was this this

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cruise plan? Right? What was
their m for stealing things? And it

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kind of like it's it's kind of
like whoa, you could also get a

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job, because like you're like,
if you think about what were they really

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trying to steal? What was their
initial plan? It's not much money they're

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going to get. What are they
gonna get his his jeep, his clothes.

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They didn't know he had the ninety
thousand dollars when they start their plan,

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and when you kind of look at
the barn, it's just kind of

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like a big old garage sale of
crap, right, So so how what

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was their plan to make money?
And I think of like, well,

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maybe there were no other choices,
right, Like it's kind of that era

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of when those kind of jobs disappear, and I thought that was very kind

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of prescient of where the country has
gone. Yeah, I think also,

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um, and it is funny.
I mean it's not like we don't have

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we just still have movie stars.
But I do think that there was something

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about like there's a moment early in
the movie when JT. Walsh is pretending

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that he hasn't seen carlsal before and
I've never seen it before in my life,

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and Kurt Russell has this really small
moment. He doesn't go big with

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it. He just goes like,
what are you? What are you doing?

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And he's so it's almost like his
whole worldview collapses in that moment,

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his whole belief in society. And
it's a real movie moment. And I

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was trying to think of, like, if we make that movie today,

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who's playing this part? Is it
going to have the same gravitas to it?

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I think in part it's also like
back then, the guys who were

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the movie stars, you almost felt
like there was another world where this guy

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was, like Harrison Ford was a
carpenter or whatever they had. They sort

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of came from real life and then
became actors. And I feel like now

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it's like this person was always an
actor. They're pretending to be this character

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and it doesn't have that same feeling
to it. I totally agree, And

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I think, first of all,
I think you look at Kurt Russell and

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you inherently trust him and you trust
him going all the way back for the

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computer weren't ten issues. He was
the Disney kid all the way through all

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of those movies. So you you
trust him, so you're with him in

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all of that emotional goodwill. When
JT. Wall says I've never seen you,

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I remember reading that moment and just
being like, why, what's going

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on here? And it's that good
kind of confusion that happened. So I

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love that. But I agree that
there's something about Kurt Russell. I always

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believe that plays working class done good, Like like he's a guy who owned

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a started out working at a garage
pumping gas but now owns five gas stations.

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He just plays that guy. There's
a great documentary on his father who

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had a minor league baseball team,
and it was a fantastic documentary. Everyone

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should check it out. I believe
it's on Netflix. But that was another

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like you just feel like, yeah, the battered Bastards of baseball. All

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that was what it was, the
battered bastards of baseball. But definitely worth

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checking out. But you feel like, yeah, he's not he's not a

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major league baseball owner. He's a
minor league baseball owner. And you just

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kind of feel like it's very relatable. Kurt Russell. Yeah, I mean

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it's it's almost like you look back
at it too, when we had stars

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like like a Lee, Marvin Gene
Hackman, Curry Russell, and then it's

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sort of morphed out of that and
we sort of went away from where the

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star you could see them being a
regular person. I think now in a

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weird way, it's almost like all
of our movie stars are too good looking.

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They're so handsome that you're like,
I don't know that I believe that

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you were ever a regular person and
would say that by the way he would

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say he in another life, he
would have just been a minor league baseball

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player trying trying to make it into
the majors, you know, like that's

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he's like, by the way,
the baseball team we're talking about wasn't even

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Triple A, was a single A
baseball team. You know, like this

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was like, you know, if
they got five hundred fans, it was

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a good night. You know.
I think in terms of like it makes

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me think of regards to ordinary people
or people that look like real people.

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JT. Walsh it's like the king
of that, right, JT. Walsh

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obviously one of the best character actors
of all time. This is his final

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role if I remember correctly correct And
shortly after he has a moment in this

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that is so great where his wife
has discovered his like essentially the equivalent of

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like a rapist den Like it's this
creepy the barn and the woman in there

337
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and all that, and I think
Kurt Russell is saying to the wife,

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like get out of the hole or
something like that, and JT is nonplussed.

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He's not upset that she's discovered this. He doesn't care. He goes

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just pull the chain, Arlene.
It's like, I again, it's not

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like we don't still have great actors
like that. But I just think the

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casting of this film is so impeccable. And I do wonder if part of

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that is it's a programmer kind of
concept, but it is executed at such

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a high level. Yeah, I
mean everyone involved. I mean you can't

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underestimate the music by Basil Polydora as
you can't. The casting was phenomenal.

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Everyone was just they were just terrific
actors and it was a very I mean

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it's an actor's piece. I mean, John got phenomenal performances out of everyone.

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It could have been over the top, it could have been cheesy,

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but JT is just fabulously understated.
And when that mom is telling her son

350
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Paul the trigger, You're just like, oh my gosh, it's completely believable.

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He's such a good actor that I
was almost like JT. Walsh,

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good dad. Like I was almost
like, yeah, you got that kid.

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The kid was ready to go.
He was ready to protect his dad

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with the gun. I also wanted
to kind of circle around to what you

355
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said at the beginning fort of the
practical stuff. So I'm watching the thing

356
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at the end where they dropped literally
drop a tractor trailer on JT. Walsh's

357
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face. Essentially, I'm trying to
think, how did you do it practically,

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like like just like how So the
answer was there was a japanned crane

359
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because you couldn't literally have that there, but it was basically a crane,

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and it was basically a crane as
a harness to make sure that it didn't

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look on JT. Walsh. Now
that's a lot of trust JT had,

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and I don't know that I would
have the same amount of trust that he

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did, but it was a it
was an eighteen the cab of an eighteen

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wheeler, and it was hanging on
a truck on a crane on a bridge

365
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that had been out of service than
the nineteen fifties. So this was a

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lot of trust on a lot of
different levels that I'm going to be honest,

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I don't know that I would have. So I'm JT. Wash I'm

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laying in this riverbed and I'm looking
up and there's a truck lowering towards me.

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I'm hoping, and I don't remember. I mean, we're talking.

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It's a bunch of years now.
I'm ninety nine percent sure that when the

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truck was coming down, they at
least took him out and put a I

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don't even think there was a stunt
double there. I think at least they're

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like, all right, you're good. I'm talking about when the truck was

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hanging. So that still took a
lot of faith, you know what I

375
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mean. But I'm assuming, Yeah, I'm gonna go with I'm committing to

376
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this that JT was not there when
the truck fell. Yeah. So I

377
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mean, if it for someone like
him for his career, it's almost like

378
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a perfect final role because it's such
a great role. It was such a

379
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great role. It was such a
great role. And yeah, Carol Lewis

380
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did an amazing job casting the film. Vicky Paul's production design was amazing.

381
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I mean, it was a great
team of filmmakers, really really wonderful people.

382
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But yeah, Carol was amazing in
all those different people she brought in.

383
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And a great, nice little grace
note at the end that Kathleen is

384
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the one you know, pulls the
thing and it takes him out, And

385
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that was actually a decision made by
Kurt and Kathleen on the set. They

386
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:14.039
felt like it needed to be Kathleen
to do it. I think I'm ninety

387
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nine percent sure it was originally scripted
as Kurt's character, but it really was

388
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on the day they felt like it
would be best if Kathleen did it.

389
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And I loved Kurt's reaction to it. It just felt really strong. You

390
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:33.200
know. Another thing is the film
originally had a much longer act, one

391
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like a fifteen pages of Kurt Russell
was a photographer and he was down in

392
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Central America and he sees something awful
and he comes back and he wants to

393
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quit his job and wants to change
and they're broke and all of that was

394
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It was such a great lesson in
what an amazing actors Kathleen and Kurt are

395
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and were able to do in that
which was they were able to convey all

396
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of that love that was written over
fifteen pages. In my opinion, the

397
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film really works, really comes together
in that moment when they're broke down on

398
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the side of the road and she's
teasing him and they're kind of laughing together,

399
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and you just see again you talk
about movie stars, but the two

400
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of them are able to convey their
love, their emotion. It's just fantastic.

401
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And you didn't need any of the
other stuff. You didn't need the

402
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.799
discussion in their apartment. He didn't
need why he was they were deciding.

403
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:27.640
He just needed to know it's a
young couple, they're in love, and

404
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:33.720
they've decided to start their lives again
across the country. I've mentioned this before.

405
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You know, you sometimes get the
note from when you're developing a project

406
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:41.599
where it's like, you know,
a character comes into the house and he's

407
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:45.039
got whatever, a bag of gold
or something, and it's like, where

408
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:48.279
did the bag of gold come from? Let's find out, let's show him

409
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.720
going to the mind and getting the
gold, taking the bag, driving all

410
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:56.240
and it's like, you don't need
that. The audience will pick all that

411
00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:59.160
shit up in two seconds. Just
give them the visual. Yeah. I

412
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:03.039
had something similar happened on Rob the
Mob where I was given the note of

413
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:04.640
like, well, where exactly do
they get the gun? And you know,

414
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:08.279
you write out these sequence of he
goes here, he goes there,

415
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:12.559
he negotiate and like I wrote it
like, you know, as a good

416
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:17.480
team player, but fully knowing that
this was never ever ever going to get

417
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:22.880
shot. So a good script,
a good actor, is a good director.

418
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:26.839
If they can't get across that this
is a couple in love, then

419
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:30.960
you've got bigger problems going on.
And you never doubted that Kathleen and Kurt

420
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:34.000
were in love. Like it was
a very powerful It's just it was such

421
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:41.119
a great reminder of and that moment
where she's teasing him and all of that,

422
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:42.440
you just felt like, oh,
this is the shorthand of like,

423
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.920
oh, they're gonna meet it.
You know. It's that feeling of like

424
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.279
you see a couple and you're like, oh, they really do love each

425
00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:51.079
other, and you can see it
in real life and just as much as

426
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:53.880
you can see it in film.
Yeah, as we wrap up, just

427
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:59.839
um, I'm curious what you see
in the landscape now. So particularly,

428
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.000
it's actually interesting your two films,
Breakdown and Rob the Mob. So Breakdown

429
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:08.039
is the sort of you know,
high concept but like you know, genre

430
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:12.279
programmer kind of movie that now is
probably made for I don't know what is

431
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.680
Netflix making these movies for like twelve
million bucks or something, and they kind

432
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:18.640
of throw it out there and people
talk about it for like a week,

433
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.079
and then we never hear about it
again. And then Rob the Mob.

434
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.880
I assume this is my guest because
I know Millennium distributed. It is this

435
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.640
old model where it's like foreign sales
will get a whole bunch of recognizable actors,

436
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:34.640
will build a big package, and
back then foreign sales were still robust

437
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:38.920
enough where you could cast it.
Because Rob Mob's cast is insane. There

438
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.240
is like seven hundred people that you've
seen before in that movie, even down

439
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:45.960
for very small supporting parts. And
it feels like both of those kinds of

440
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:52.160
movies no longer an option in our
current landscape. Do you think it's gonna

441
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:55.599
ever the pendulum will swing back that
way or what do you see in the

442
00:30:55.599 --> 00:31:00.720
future, I mean, I don't
know. I mean, see a film

443
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:04.920
like Rob the Mob with with you
know, forget Andy Garcia and Ray Romano,

444
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:11.519
but like Frank Whaley, you will
Vasquez, Michael Rispolly. I mean,

445
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.799
it's kind of crazy, Bert Young, Kathy Moriarty, and then you

446
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:19.279
know, Jeremy Allen White is in
a supporting role and now you know he's

447
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:23.519
the star of the Bear. I
mean, I mean, part of it

448
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:30.400
is a testimony to Raymond day Felia, the director. Part of it is

449
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.960
I don't I don't know. I
mean, I mean they're all still I

450
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:37.160
mean, every every one of these
people is still a talent, is still

451
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:45.839
available, you know. So I
feel like somehow the people producing these movies

452
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.480
don't seem to think that that matters. I don't know why, because I

453
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.920
think it does. But I don't
really know the answer to the question.

454
00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:56.880
But I too have noticed it,
so I see exactly what you're talking about.

455
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.920
I don't know the answer, you
know, I don't what do you

456
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:04.960
think the answer is. I really
don't know. I think that a lot

457
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.359
of this is predicated on what's going
to happen with Marvel. I really do

458
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:12.920
believe that actually is meaningful, meaning
that we've seen some slowing of audience for

459
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.960
the Marvel films, which have been
so reliably just gangbusters again and again and

460
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:21.079
again. And I think that if
that continues, then there will be a

461
00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:25.880
reaction towards more original stuff. You
know, both Rob the Mob and breakdown

462
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:29.640
our examples of that right where basically
it's an original idea. I know,

463
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:32.599
the Mob is based on a true
story, but they're not based on whatever

464
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:37.039
comic book, graphic novel, etc. So yeah, I think it depending

465
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:42.200
on how that goes, then this
other stuff might swing one way or the

466
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.480
other. I mean, what's interesting
to me is I teach at AFI,

467
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:50.000
the American Film Institute. I teach
screenwriting there, and my students, when

468
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.640
I asked them what they're watching,
what they want to see, they kind

469
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.640
of go two different directions. For
most of them, movies are the Marvel

470
00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:00.240
movies. They want to see the
Marvel movies opening weekend. They talk about

471
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:02.960
the Marvel movies. But the other
way they go, which I think is

472
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:07.599
equally interesting, are the kind of
super micro budgeted films that you see on

473
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:13.319
shutter like kind of these like under
one million dollar movies. And they've been

474
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:16.559
amazing to me because they throw out
these movies at me and I love them.

475
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:21.559
So I've seen a lot of little
films that I kind of think,

476
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:24.960
well, maybe that's how these movies
get made. I mean they're very small

477
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.559
and scale. I mean, it's
like taking place in someone's living room kind

478
00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:34.079
of thing with five actors. But
I don't know, I don't know,

479
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:37.559
I don't like. I think you're
right. I think Marvel has kind of

480
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:43.119
sucked all the air out of the
room, so I don't know. I

481
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:45.359
also think, you know, Marvel
kind of works globally, Like I think

482
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:50.279
no one's going to get in trouble
making a Marvel movie because it takes place

483
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:52.440
in a fantasy universe, and I
think for a lot of countries they don't

484
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.039
want to touch on real topics.
I think that's risky. So when you

485
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:00.319
say it takes place in the Marvel
universe, no one I mean and quite

486
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:05.559
literally is going to get through to
jail for screen of Marble movie. Yeah.

487
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:08.880
Well, thank you so much for
coming on the shows. It's a

488
00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:13.000
real pleasure to have you on here, and I appreciate your insight. That

489
00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:15.760
is the episode for today. I
want to thank everybody for listening as always.

490
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.760
If you enjoy the show, give
us a rating and review on Apple

491
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.559
Podcasts, and subscribe for future episodes. Jonathan, thank you so much again.

492
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:27.559
Thank you for having me, love
being here. Until next time,

493
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:28.239
Bye bye,