Annihilation (Amazon, Paramount+)

WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.320 --> 00:00:22.160
Voyage. Welcome to watch this tonight. I'm your host, An Bettimore.

2
00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:25.679
I'm a producer, writer of film
and television and now a podcast producer.

3
00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:29.519
And despite having every streaming service,
I never know what to watch. So

4
00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:33.039
anytime I watch something good, I
talk about it on the show. This

5
00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:36.200
way, you'll never have the same
problem I do. I watched this tonight.

6
00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:40.560
There's always something good to watch.
Let's get started, all right.

7
00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:44.079
Today on the show, we are
doing one of our all star episodes about

8
00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:47.840
a movie that plays different with the
passage of time. And the movie that

9
00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:53.679
we're doing, after much heated debate
between myself and my guest Jeff, is

10
00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:58.119
Annihilation. So before we get into
that, though, I want to introduce

11
00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:00.159
you to Jeff. Tell you about
Jeff. So. Jeff and I met

12
00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:06.000
at the Vancouver Film School, and
but I almost feel like I've known you

13
00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:07.840
so long. I had a moment
this morning, I was like, did

14
00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:10.719
I meet Jeff at the Vancouver Ville
School? Like, I almost feel like

15
00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:12.799
I've known you from before that.
For whatever reason, we just always got

16
00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:18.959
along. And Jeff as a filmmaker, and he has a film that he

17
00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:23.159
is almost he's been spitting distance of
picture lock on that he's working on right

18
00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.400
now that he's killed himself to make, which I'm so happy for him.

19
00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:30.120
What is what is your movie?
Can you tell the listeners what it's about?

20
00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:37.239
Humilits like a one location horror movie, kind of a fun play on

21
00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:44.239
an urban legend about young girls trying
to get followers and this ghost that takes

22
00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:48.640
vengeance on people if they if you're
abusing your phone too much. It kind

23
00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:52.680
of plays into that theme and as
ghost hunters, and it's kind of fun

24
00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:00.359
mystery kind of story. Yeah.
I probably did well. No, I

25
00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:08.840
Annihilation too. It's uh we it's
funny. Audience can't see this because this

26
00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:13.240
is an audio medium. But I'm
wearing a coat, like I'm in Vancouver

27
00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:16.599
in like September during the rainy season
in Los Angeles. It's been cold here

28
00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:21.000
for so long. Remind me,
Jeff, you're you're in um what where

29
00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:24.680
are you in Canada? Vancouver?
You are you are in Vancouver? Yeah?

30
00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:28.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah, God, I love Vancouver. I remember

31
00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:32.400
we met you in uh yeah,
Vancouver Film School in twenty ten and it

32
00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:37.840
was like one class we watched a
movie together. It was a French film

33
00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:40.879
of camera what it was called in
the same like auditorius little auditorium room,

34
00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:43.919
and before it started, you're like, okay, what are the rules and

35
00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:46.159
commentary people trying to meet any whatever, And it was such like a fun

36
00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:49.719
uh not really does that or kind
of chemson, but it was such a

37
00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:53.479
fun kind of thing you did on
a bunch of movie lovers, movie geeks

38
00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:55.439
gettinggether watch in the movie. Yeah, I can't help myself. Um,

39
00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.479
I h you know, it's funny. This shows you, you know,

40
00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:04.879
we both know how difficult it is
to make a film and then also how

41
00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:07.120
difficult it is to get people to
like that movie. And I thought it

42
00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:10.000
was fascinating that, despite the fact
that you and I are good friends,

43
00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:15.479
we have widely opposing taste, it
was actually very difficult for us to find

44
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:20.240
a movie that we both fell passionately
about to discuss. And ironically enough,

45
00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:23.919
that movie was Annihilation, which is
one of the as I rewatched it,

46
00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:31.039
top five weirdest mainstream movies ever made. Yeah, it's definitely open to interpretation.

47
00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:37.960
Yeah, what you just said.
But how being not connecting with certain

48
00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:39.680
movies. I thought about that a
lot lately. That's fascinating, how like

49
00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:45.639
even a movie can be quote unquote
great. Maybe a person doesn't connect to

50
00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:49.199
it and it's like who is one
right or wrong? Or what is that?

51
00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:52.919
And it's like, it's interesting how
we're so influenced by our backgrounds and

52
00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:55.000
what's kind of shaped us to what
we'll connect with and what we'll connect with

53
00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:59.680
or at the time in our lives
kind of thing. Yeah, it was.

54
00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:03.360
It was actually a great movie to
watch again because on the first watch

55
00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:11.439
you're so like knocked out by its
strangeness. You're it's almost like you need

56
00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:15.040
a second watch just to kind of
wrap your head around it. And there's

57
00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:19.079
so much to talk about with it. I think it really is, especially

58
00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:24.439
with the benefit of time. I
feel like Annihilation is almost like what we

59
00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:29.839
hoped that the streaming revolution would bring
about, more movies like that, where

60
00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:34.199
it's like, you know, this
strange, bold, you know, but

61
00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:39.959
not small, like a big,
strange, bold movie, very like distinctive.

62
00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:43.680
And I don't think that's really happened. I think if we if that

63
00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:46.519
movie came out today and it was
like a Netflix original movie, we'd be

64
00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.560
like, Wow, this is like
one of the better original streaming movies in

65
00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:55.600
many years. For whatever reason,
I think that we just haven't had movies

66
00:04:55.639 --> 00:04:58.759
like this that much, unless it's
like an A twenty four film or something

67
00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:03.439
like that. But even I think
it was. I was so impressed by

68
00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:05.920
rewatching it, really I was.
And and one thing I want to talk

69
00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:09.519
to you about. Its interesting,
you say, like our backgrounds and how

70
00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:13.560
they affect how we process stuff.
So there's a moment earlier in the movie,

71
00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:15.160
and I and again, I was
so impressed with the setup of the

72
00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:20.040
movie, which the first like fifteen
minutes of this movie are incredible. Earlier

73
00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:25.160
in the movie, we meet now
apartment. Her husband has been missing for

74
00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:30.920
a long time, and she's in
her house and she's sad because he's missing,

75
00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:34.040
and then he sort of just walks
into the house and they have this

76
00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:42.680
Crosby Stills Nash song playing helplessly hoping, and it's so I thought it was

77
00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.399
so effective. I remember I get
goose once every time I watch it,

78
00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:47.639
the way that they played that music
and how it incorporates with the scene.

79
00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:51.480
But you're Canadian. I don't know
if like that that song means anything to

80
00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.240
you or you connect to it anyway, Like, what was your reaction to

81
00:05:55.279 --> 00:06:05.439
that moment? I mean, I
guess big Neil young Fen when I think

82
00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:08.720
back the first time I watched it, all the stroat for me. I

83
00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:13.720
watched at Christmas time a few years
ago, and ironically and was just how

84
00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:18.920
beautiful the production design and art was
and the theme of um self destruction,

85
00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:21.920
how people like don't die, they're
not killed, like we literally self destruct.

86
00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:26.120
We will find a way biology will
find a way to kill ourselves to

87
00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:28.480
self destruct. That blew me away. I was like, Wow, I

88
00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:33.360
never had that thought before. That's
fascinating. Um, your question about the

89
00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.639
music on that scene, I don't
remember picking up on that. Um,

90
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:42.720
yeah, I think that when over
my head, I missed that part.

91
00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:46.920
But yes, yeah, Natalie Portman
is such a great actress man so all

92
00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.480
like the little all the beats and
a little beach he nails. It feels

93
00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:56.519
so like something's there's a tension there
that's not an organic tension or normal with

94
00:06:56.560 --> 00:07:01.160
the relationship. Something something's different there. Yeah, that feeling is present through

95
00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:08.839
the entire movie, that just something
is wrong. I was the rewatch It

96
00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:12.319
was really noticeable to me. I
think that my memory of the film was

97
00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:15.480
that it was very artsy FARTZI And
when you rewatch it, you see that

98
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:18.519
the first eleven This is what happens
in the first eleven minutes of this movie.

99
00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:23.879
Natalie Portman's husband's missing for a year. He returns home, he can't

100
00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:27.600
remember anything, He has like a
seizure, and ambulance goes to take him

101
00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:31.639
to the hospital. A swat team
pulls over the ambulance and abducts him and

102
00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:36.160
Natalie Portman. And that's the first
eleven minutes of the movie. And then

103
00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:42.279
right after that, she learns about
this meteor that hit this area and there's

104
00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:46.600
a shimmering barrier around it that keeps
expanding, and everything they sent into it

105
00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:50.000
never comes back except for Oscar Isaac, who is now dying. And maybe

106
00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:54.000
if Natalie Portman goes in there,
she can figure out what's killing him and

107
00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:58.439
cure it. And that's the beginning
of the movie. Who is not watching

108
00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.480
the movie after that set up?
Yeah, what a great setup. That's

109
00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:07.879
a million dollars setup. Even to
I still remember the few minutes in the

110
00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.279
music, the acoustic guitar, acoustic
guitar plucking on the asteroid coming to hit

111
00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:20.120
the lighthouse. This like really nice
pretty beach lighthouse. What a cool contrast.

112
00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:24.879
He would think he would be acoustic
guitar music is so unexpected there you'd

113
00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.639
think would be some sort of sci
fi music or something aggressive or reretning.

114
00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:33.919
It's almost like a peaceful, organic, biological sound. I don't know.

115
00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.519
That's why I would interpret that it's
such an intrastart an artistic choice too,

116
00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:41.799
because it's such like an opposite,
ironic choice. It seems like so much

117
00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:46.799
of the most interesting art is always
like it's like contradictory or contrary. It's

118
00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:52.200
not it's might expect it. It's
such an that's still I still remember that

119
00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:54.840
it was so unexpected and such a
beautiful, cool kind of movie magic moment.

120
00:08:56.720 --> 00:08:58.200
Yeah. I think that's a great
point because a lot of the movies

121
00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.720
like that where so for example,
like once they go into the shimmer,

122
00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:05.519
right, they go in, and
you're expecting the obvious way to do it

123
00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:11.440
would be an immediate crazy thing that
they see or something right, But instead

124
00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:16.639
she I think she has a dream
about cheating on her husband, and then

125
00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:22.120
she wakes up in the tent and
she gets out of the tent and they're

126
00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:26.080
like, we've been in here for
four days, and the only reason they

127
00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:30.080
know that is because they can see
how much food they've eaten, but none

128
00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:33.879
of them has any memory of what's
happened in those four days. And it's

129
00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:39.639
so scary, Like it's so discomforts
you. Right, it's just not you're

130
00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.080
thrown off constantly by like the choices
that they make. It's just not what

131
00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:46.080
you expect it to be. Yeah, you made a good point there,

132
00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:52.600
man, of I guess in the
writing or what it came down to was

133
00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:56.720
it's unexpected. The whole movie sort
of feels unexpected. It takes little right

134
00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:00.519
turns, we think it's going to
go straight. So many movies these days

135
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:05.799
don't do that over perfect. This
movie could have been her all the mistiques

136
00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:07.639
it could have made it. I
think it made so many interesting choices,

137
00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:11.240
and it feels so full of energy. So movies like kind of expected,

138
00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:15.320
there's like this so little energy to
them, but this movie feels so full

139
00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.159
of energy. Just watching it,
you don't know what's going to happen.

140
00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:24.120
Anything could happen sort of in this
movie. Well yeah, I mean especially

141
00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:28.000
once. So the first couple of
beats is they killed this crocodile, they

142
00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:33.279
discovered the crocodile has shark teeth,
and then they find the video of Oscar

143
00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:39.159
Isaac's team and it shows Oscar cutting
a guy open and his intestines are moving

144
00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:41.600
around like they're in like a swimming
pool, like a like a worm like

145
00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:48.000
squirming around his body. And then
they have the bear with the human female

146
00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.440
voice, which is seriously one of
the scariest things I've ever seen in a

147
00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:54.120
movie in my life. I remember
the first time I saw it how it

148
00:10:54.320 --> 00:11:01.399
profoundly upset me, and it was
it was I think that what's so amazing

149
00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:05.600
about it is the sound design,
because when you hear that idea and it's

150
00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:07.799
like, oh, there, but
it's like talking with like a woman's voice.

151
00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:13.120
Like if you remember when they did
Antichrist with Lars one Treer and they

152
00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:16.679
had the fox and the fox said
like, I don't remember what he said.

153
00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:20.279
It took so the fox said something
and into Christ and it played.

154
00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:24.519
People said it played almost funny,
and I think that was the danger of

155
00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:26.480
this idea, But when you watch
in the movie, there's nothing funny about

156
00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:31.360
it. It is like unholy is
so upsetting hearing that bear and her voice

157
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.879
coming out, it's so fah,
Yeah, there's something. Yes, it's

158
00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:39.799
definitely creepy. Has it nails that
creepy element. I think so much of

159
00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:45.840
like what makes things creepy is when
it's kind of similar but different. It's

160
00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.200
like you don't know, you don't
know what it's gonna move, how it's

161
00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:52.120
gonna move. Like zombies were scary
the first few times, but everyone knows

162
00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.799
how they're kind of gonna move now, see it's expected. But if it's

163
00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:56.840
something new and different, and even
if like it's even scary, you don't

164
00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:00.519
know how to react to something,
like if you're supposed to laugh for be

165
00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:03.639
terrified. And yeah, that bear
is with the woman's voice. I guess

166
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:11.639
who the voice of the woman who
had just killed the scientists who lost their

167
00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:16.639
daughter. Uh, yeah, that's
so And you feel like you're so in

168
00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.840
the mote moment with Nellie Parlaman on
the other actresses. It's such a cool

169
00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:26.279
scene it plays at the Bear.
I mean, they do such a great

170
00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:31.320
job of like continually upping the ante
of just fucking creeping you out, like

171
00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:35.000
just you know, it's like the
they start small and it just keeps getting

172
00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:39.200
bigger and bigger and bigger. And
I looked up the plot of the book

173
00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:45.279
because I wanted to know I had
read that Alex Garland had really kind of

174
00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:48.240
like taken it his own way,
and if you look up the plot of

175
00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:52.039
the book, it's way different.
I mean there's pieces that are in that

176
00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:56.600
are there, but it's clearly like
he's doing his own thing. Um,

177
00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:58.320
he said. I think I read
an interview he said something the effect of

178
00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.039
he wanted to he read the book
and then like did not look at it

179
00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:05.279
again and then just did his adaptation, which I thought was a really interesting

180
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:11.879
way of doing it. Yeah,
what he does. Yeah, it's I

181
00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:16.720
mean, it's such a great setup
to go into. Um. I haven't

182
00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.279
read the books at helment in that, but just yeah, a group of

183
00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:28.600
scientists, of female scientists, all
different specialists, um, physicists, biologists,

184
00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:37.120
uh uh, paramedic another one,
all going into this like it's almost

185
00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:41.120
like going to another planet, another
looking at another investigating another type of biology.

186
00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:48.279
Um, and it can just refract
or mutate off of them. It's

187
00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:52.120
such like a million dollars setup,
man, genius. It's there's so much

188
00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.600
you can do with it, That's
what you said. The movie feels like

189
00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:58.120
it has so much energy. It
feels like it's bursting at the seems like

190
00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:03.879
it feels like we're we're just scratching
the surface of a world that is way

191
00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:07.840
more expansive, and there's just you
could you could have a whole show that

192
00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:11.039
was said in that world. Yeah, you know, pretty easily. Yeah,

193
00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:13.279
that's too It almost feels like it
could be a lot more. It's

194
00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:16.679
almost too bad. It's it's so
interesting, like even how it likes some

195
00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.919
of the stuff when they're with the
guy's dead body in the pool that's half

196
00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.759
sucked, oh yeah, hell yeah, and how it's like it's very threatening

197
00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:31.000
but also beautiful, like the flowers. It's so like sort of like it's

198
00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:35.279
violent and beautiful. It's such an
interesting contrast, really cool, very the

199
00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.399
Last of Us. If you've seen
The Last of Us, a lot of

200
00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:43.799
stuff in there is like that,
with the fungus growing people on fucking yeah

201
00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:52.600
um and then the absolutely insane just
what the fuck ending? I remember again,

202
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:56.440
Sometimes you have movies where maybe just
I'm always tired, I don't know,

203
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.879
but sometimes I'll be watching a movie
and let's say I'm like like kind

204
00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.159
of like getting sleepy for whatever reason, and then you get to the end

205
00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.120
and something happens. It's so strange
and you're like, did I actually watch

206
00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.000
that or did I dream it?
And that's how I felt with the end

207
00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:18.480
of this movie. It's so fucking
weird, and it's still I still don't

208
00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.440
really know exactly what it means,
but I like I like that I don't

209
00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:24.559
know what it means, and I
like that it forces me to kind of

210
00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:28.600
puzzle it out. Obviously, spoiler
alert, we're gonna talk with the end

211
00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:30.759
of this movie, although frankly,
I don't even know how to spoil it

212
00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:35.799
because I couldn't really explain to you
exactly what happens. That's fascinating you say

213
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:39.559
that nodding off a bit, because
I've seen it three times, and I

214
00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:41.200
like, I've knodded off a little
bit every time, even when I'm not

215
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:46.360
tired, even like I'll just start
to Bob Bob apples for like a second

216
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:50.879
or two. Okay, what did
I miss or something? And yeah,

217
00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:56.120
like the pacing just sloges right down
and then it not that it's a bad

218
00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:00.879
thing, but um, it's interesting. It plays it like into the kind

219
00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.759
of the theme of the movie,
how you're not exactly sure what you saw

220
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:11.159
or not exactly sure how to interpret
things. Maybe mayberet as well. Oh

221
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.200
well, but I think it becomes
increasingly dreamy the longer that it goes.

222
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:19.039
Right at the beginning, it's very
plot and stuff is happening and you and

223
00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:25.879
it's like very clear what's going on. And then the middle section is showing

224
00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:29.279
you the promise to the premise of
all this crazy shit that happens in this

225
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:33.080
thing. And then the last section
is where it's just like what it feels

226
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:37.440
very subjective, right, we're sort
of just with Natalie Portman. She finds

227
00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:41.399
Jennifer Jason Lee's character and that's a
whole crazy thing where she like emmolates or

228
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:47.080
whatever the hell happens with her.
And then there's the the being that is

229
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:51.919
created like in her image, which
it's funny. I had this memory.

230
00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:56.320
It's interesting, had time plays tricks
on you. I had this memory that

231
00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:00.679
Natalie Portman and the thing that turns
into her memory like had like a dance

232
00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.079
dance revolution, dance battle, like
that was my memory of it. But

233
00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:08.559
that's not it's that, it just
it just shadows for movements for a little

234
00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:15.599
while, and yeah, it's so
weird. And then the grenade and you're

235
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.559
just I think that the ambiguity of
it, the surreal quality of it is

236
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:23.279
very much an art film kind of
ending. Um, but the stuff that

237
00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:27.400
comes before that is not like that, so it's almost like it changes genres

238
00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:32.880
going into the third act of it. Yeah, that's fascinating. Uh.

239
00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:40.279
Yeah, when when it takes the
biological form, takes her form and like

240
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:45.440
mimics her movements for like a minute
and they kind of go around and falls

241
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.559
and mimics her feels so like I
just remember thinking it was almost like too,

242
00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:52.839
like Kubrick asked, like two thousand
and one or a Yeah, I

243
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.359
don't know why I thought that,
but it feels like it's interesting. It

244
00:17:55.400 --> 00:18:00.759
takes another turn where it doesn't just
assume that alien form is hostile. That

245
00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:07.440
it's could be. It's just there
to observe or to interact with humans,

246
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.559
and there's no I thought that was
interesting. It's not just like black and

247
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:14.480
a white. It's gray. So
much of reality is gray. It's not

248
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.359
exactly black and white, and that
it yeah, plays with that. Yeah,

249
00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:23.480
definitely open to interpretation. The right
to the end with right to their

250
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:30.160
shout, to their eyes and looking
different. But that that little part where

251
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:32.559
it mimics her form, I thought
was fast and it was such a cool,

252
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:38.160
um interesting little spin on things,
and that's how it feels the whole.

253
00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:41.279
It doesn't feel like the Aly life
forma is houst hostile. It feels

254
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:47.920
great, beautiful, and those hostile
elements to about it's not like it's black

255
00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:55.079
and white um. And also the
running kind of thread of infidelity, like

256
00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.519
that, I'd forgotten how prominent it
was. That at the very beginning,

257
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:02.680
there's the guy she's like at the
school or whatever, and he's like,

258
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.640
hey, it's been a year,
and he tries to hold her hand,

259
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.079
and then we find out that she
slept with that guy while she thought that

260
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:15.759
Oscar Isaac was dead, presumably,
and then at the end she tells Oscar

261
00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:18.759
Isaac, You're not Kane, are
you? And he says, I don't

262
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.319
think so. And I thought it
made me think of I think this was

263
00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.160
Chris Rock. Chris Rock is a
Stamps special where talks about cheating on his

264
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:30.359
wife and how you know the reason
that people cheat on their spouses they want

265
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:34.279
something new. But then when you
go back to your spouse because of the

266
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:38.519
infidelity, you've changed them and they've
become something new to you. Like it.

267
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.839
They become like a new person almost, And I thought that's almost kind

268
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:45.519
of what we saw here is that
you know, she had this affair,

269
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:51.200
it affected her relationship, and now
she sort of reunited with him, but

270
00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:53.559
not really, it's not really him. I thought that was all. There's

271
00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.279
something there with infidelity again that you
get. This is like, I feel

272
00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.440
like this is probably a big like
film, school paper movie, because you

273
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:06.079
could talk about this all day long
and come up with any interpretation you wanted

274
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:11.400
and probably find a way to support
it. Yeah, there's many elements to

275
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:17.359
the film that are very open ended. I guess my interpretation was that he

276
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:22.480
was changed in alien or the other
life format taken him. I guess because

277
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:30.960
the eye shouts to his eye,
Oliver's eyes being different. Even then if

278
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:36.240
like you said, it would be
interesting too because that's like this the self

279
00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:40.200
destruction theme I thought was so cool. And how all the scientists are all

280
00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:48.920
one was a big time drug user, the other one were they they all

281
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.079
head forms of big time baggage in
their lives. But that was fascinating,

282
00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:59.920
man, fascinating right to the end. Just how even whoever you look at

283
00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.519
people or life, it finds a
way to kind of screw up, even

284
00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.880
even if you has the best intentions
it'll find a way to self destruct.

285
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:12.880
Um, fascinating. Man, I'm
still thinking about that. I don't know

286
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:15.279
what to make of that. That's
just I've never thought of it like that,

287
00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:22.319
of life like that a brilliant I
wanted to almost like quickly kind of

288
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.799
like power rank Alex Garland's career because
he's done a lot of stuff that's sort

289
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:32.799
of like circling this and I'm gonna
just quickly give you like a Alex Garland

290
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:34.400
things, and then I want to
talk about if this is the best thing

291
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:41.880
that he's done to date. So
The Beach Sunshine, twenty eight days later

292
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:48.200
DEVS, which is an FX series, Annihilation X Machina, and then he

293
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:52.680
made a movie called Men in twenty
twenty two. Do you think that the

294
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.079
best one of all matter? I
would put it right up there with X

295
00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:03.960
X makin it feels like more relevant, like every day with all the all

296
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.799
the teams, Like every month in
twenty twenty three, there's like major tech

297
00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:15.160
breakthroughs like major um X mackin with
the whole term test and the robot stripping

298
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:19.920
him basically not to reck with if
anyone who wasn't seeing this or X MAC

299
00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:22.160
and I definitely put that like top
of your list, and those are like

300
00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:26.680
must seem X Mackin is like a
must see film. I was saying,

301
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:33.039
yeah, and I know everyone Annihilation
is right up there. Uh uh.

302
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.599
X Mackin is like the nineteen eighty
four Man of and like that type of

303
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.640
film where it's like everyone should see
it because it's so relevant. It's going

304
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:47.160
to be relevant for everyone. Um
yeah, what an interesting time to be

305
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.480
alive dance. Yeah. I think, you know, when you look at

306
00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:53.440
his like filmography, I think if
you look at a movie like Sunshine,

307
00:22:53.480 --> 00:23:00.200
for example, um, I think
that there's been films where it's like he

308
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:04.160
didn't completely get all the elements to
work together. Like Sunshine is a really

309
00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:07.799
interesting movie. There's a lot of
really great qualities. Has been criticized for

310
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:14.720
an abrupt shift in the third act. You know, I think overall I

311
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:15.839
liked I liked that movie a lot, but I don't think it's as good

312
00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:19.799
as this movie. I don't think
it's even close, frankly, And I

313
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:22.440
think that if you look at you
know, like I try to watch Dev's,

314
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.599
I found it a bit cold,
Like I didn't really connect to it

315
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:30.000
emotionally, which I think is why
I didn't end up finishing it. Obviously,

316
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.359
the Beach sort of famously maligned.
I think that, you know,

317
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.599
that movie is not considered necessarily a
great movie, although you know, I

318
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:41.599
haven't revisited in a long time and
I didn't see men. Did you see

319
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:45.680
men? I haven't seen Man.
I thought of yellok, you just said

320
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.599
with them sort of disconnected way through
about the beach, and one eight days

321
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:53.079
later was like, so there was
brilliant man and I sort of kind of

322
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:56.960
lost connect when I kind of got
to the compound and there was a bit

323
00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.519
more like turning on themselves and like
the the rape stuff was kind of I

324
00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:06.039
don't know, it was less so
much less interesting than the zombies. But

325
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:12.680
yeah, definitely definitely a guy worth
watching. Definite has some cool ideas that

326
00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:17.319
he's playing with in films. For
sure. I think that where I would

327
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:19.960
say that if you look at the
body of his work, where I have

328
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.920
more difficulty with it is when it
is a little bit colder emotionally. And

329
00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:30.279
I think that that's why I mentioned
the Crosby Stills song right, it was

330
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.920
like, because it's so warm right
at the beginning of that movie with Natalie

331
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.920
Portman when she's in the house and
the song is playing and oscar Isaac comes

332
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.920
back and she's so overwhelmed to see
him, and her reaction is so emotional,

333
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:48.119
and so it has a real basis
in something emotional that I thought really

334
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.759
connected. Yeah, there's some shots
of her, I think in the bedroom

335
00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:00.799
and around the beginning of the movie
where she looks like very I don't really

336
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:07.440
describe it, but like very like
beautifully motherly, like obviously very beautiful actress,

337
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:15.039
but she looks like very um patient, kind warm, like very warm

338
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:22.279
support a very like um open.
I don't know if organic is the word,

339
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:26.920
but very like if I were to
like look at a picture of motherly,

340
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:30.240
how she looks in the futures is
how is how she I would describe

341
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:37.119
as motherly, like very beautiful and
warm and accepting and not like she'll be

342
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:42.319
your fancy clothes are like wealth or
luxury, very like organically motherly, right,

343
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:47.319
She's she's sort of yeah, she's
very approachable. The way that Hit

344
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.960
they've presented her is in such a
way that because Natalie Portman can totally play

345
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.440
I see and distant, and she's
not playing that at all, especially in

346
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:59.119
the flashbacks where they show the like
positive times in her relationship with ascar Isaac,

347
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:03.000
where they're sort of like in bed
and you know, having a positive

348
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:08.079
moment together. I think that the
I feel like Annihilation is him putting all

349
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:11.480
the pieces together, right. He's
got the weird sci fi stuff that's in

350
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:15.359
all of almost all this stuff.
He's got the kind of third act detour,

351
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:18.519
but I think it actually works in
this one or maybe some of the

352
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.759
other films that didn't work quite as
well. And he has that emotional grounding

353
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:27.359
that makes us care so that we
can then engage in the wild interesting ideas.

354
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:30.839
I have to revisit x Machia.
I'm trying to remember. I definitely

355
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.279
liked it. I want to,
you know, his movies. He is

356
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.759
a great example of a guy where
you should like revisit his movies every five

357
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:42.799
to ten years, because his movie
is definitely reward like repeated viewings. They

358
00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:48.039
don't they don't get everything the first
time. I think, yeah, Annihilation

359
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:51.440
him, I would, yeah,
say he's a great film. I'm sure

360
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:55.279
to last twenty years. I'm sure
to last a long time. I'm not

361
00:26:55.359 --> 00:27:04.839
sure how long. Maybe to lastly
any humanity, it's uh yeah, I

362
00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:08.319
don't know, just so interesting,
such an interesting movie on the theme of

363
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:15.079
self destruction and some other life form
being so beautiful and violent or destructive and

364
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:19.400
is different and then like trying to
observe humanity. Humanity. Whenever we see

365
00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:26.440
the movies usually they're very like black
and white or albough what hostility and violence.

366
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:32.000
This seems so much more gray and
interesting. X MAC and A Yeah,

367
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:38.759
just um sort of usual suspects kind
of set up. I don't know

368
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.079
how to say too much for the
like, but it's such a brilliant take

369
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:51.079
on like the Turing Test and knowing
how and how to interact with AGI and

370
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.799
the danger of it, how it
can manipulate us once it knows how human

371
00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.880
desires. It has the game play, and it's just how is it going

372
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:06.200
to get there? And demons are
all sort of uh, we all have

373
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:10.519
her flaws or desires, So it's
the once it figures that out, not

374
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.319
I mean that's the future of Yeah, we're like we're like two weeks from

375
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:18.079
X mocking being real, Like that's
happened like for the next episode of this

376
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:23.680
podcast. Um, well, I
think that kind of covers it. I

377
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:29.240
think certainly we would both agree that
Annihilation I would say has, if anything,

378
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:33.240
has aged to where it's I hold
it and higher esteem now than I

379
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:36.559
probably did back then. I think
I back then it was oh, what

380
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:40.440
an interesting movie. Now it's like, oh, this, could we have

381
00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:42.319
a movie like this again? Like, I don't know, I feel like

382
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:48.359
cinema in general has degraded a bit, particularly because of the streaming stuff,

383
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.440
and I don't I can't remember the
last movie that I saw that made me

384
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:56.200
feel the way Annihilation made me feel. Yeah, that's a good point.

385
00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:02.599
There's like some movies you watch and
it's like any emotion you kind of get

386
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.000
out of it, and when viewing
it any intellectual stimulation or ideas, you

387
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:07.200
kind of think about it for a
little bit. Okay, you figured out

388
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:11.680
then. But this movie, there's
like it sets up so many great questions.

389
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:18.880
Yeah, and there's some of like
the movie match for the emotion still

390
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:25.079
feels fresh when you watch it again
and steal you know what's happening a second

391
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:33.920
or through time, but it doesn't
feel like a sterile or kind of old.

392
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:45.720
Uh. Yeah, so many interesting
ideas and emotion to it. Yeah,

393
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.960
definitely say it's a great film.
Yeah, it's a staggering piece of

394
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.799
work. Um, okay, well, that is the show for today.

395
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:56.440
Jeff, is there anywhere people can
follow you Instagram? Just my name Jeff

396
00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:07.039
Schallenberg probably the lamest handle. What's
What's? The movie called Amarosa should be

397
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:12.559
out sometime in um late twenty twenty
three, twenty twenty four. Awesome man,

398
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:15.559
looking forward to it. Well,
thank you so much for coming on

399
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.039
the show. That is the podcast
for today. As always, if you're

400
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.720
enjoying the show, please throw us
a five star rating on Apple Podcasts.

401
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.319
That is the best way you can
support the podcast. You can write a

402
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:27.759
written review too, if you're feeling
extra generous that I'll do like a backflip.

403
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:33.319
We really appreciate that, and subscribe
for a future episodes. Until next

404
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.920
time, by h