Syriana (A Deep Dive Into An Inexplicably Disliked Film)

WEBVTT

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Voyage. Welcome to watch this tonight. I'm your host, Dan Bettimore.

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I'm a produced writer of film and
television and now a podcast producer. And

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despite having every streaming service, I
never know what to watch. So anytime

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I watch something good, I talk
about it on the show. This way,

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you'll never have the same problem I
do. I watched this tonight.

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There's always something good to watch.
Let's get started. Today on the show,

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we are doing a deep dive into
Syriana, an inexplicably disliked film.

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This movie was critically aclaimed. Roger
Ebert put it as his number two movie

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of the year, but it lost
money ninety four million dollar gross on a

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fifty million dollar budget, which,
after you take an account marketing and theatrical

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share, you split with the theaters. This movie lost money in its theatrical

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release, and I would say more
so even Annacdotally just online in real life,

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anytime of this movie comes up,
a lot of people don't like this

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movie, and I have never understood
why. So I wanted to just kind

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of dive into it as a movie
that I think is incredible, and as

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the years have passed, has only
grown in my estimation. I think,

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if you look at this movie in
Mike Clayton, you know you have probably

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two of the best George Clooney performances
of his career. Incredible cast. The

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ensemble cast includes George Clooney, Christopher
Plummer, Jeffrey Wright, Chris Cooper,

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Matt Damon, Amanda Pete, Tom
McCarthy, Max Bengela, Alexander Sadiq,

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Tim Blake Nelson, William Hurt,
and Mark Strong. When asked why he

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did the film, Matt Damon said, to Dark Horizons, basically, he

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said it better than I could.
About why the movie's great, he said

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a couple of things. I love
the script. I thought it was so

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smart and so unlike most of the
movies coming out of Hollywood, particularly movies

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that have a real budget. This
movie was probably sixty million bucks. And

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you don't see characters that are this
flawed in Gray, in Big Buddy of

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movies, because in Hollywood, the
last thing they want to do is confuse

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you. They want you to know, we have two hours to tell you

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a story. Here's the good guy, here's the bad guy, here's the

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problem. This wasn't reductive like that, so that was really attractive. George

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had already signed up for it.
We were doing Oceans twelve and so I

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talked to him in Soderberg. I
didn't know anything about Gagging, but Stephen

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had obviously worked very closely with him
on traffic. I talked to these guys

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and they said, look, we
totally believe in him. You should have

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a conversation with him. So I
called Gagging and after about twenty minutes,

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I'm like, yeah, I'm in. And had all the things to look

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for. Really strong script, really
smart director, and a good role.

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So I love the script too,
Matt Damon. And just to give you

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the flavor of it before I get
into the production history, whether you've seen

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the movie before, you've never seen
the movie before, I just want to

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give you some quotes in the movie
because I think it really the dialogue,

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it's so good. And that's where
I keeps making me think about Michael Clayton,

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because I'm willing to bet that Tony
Gilroy really loves this movie. This

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is a line that George Clooney says
in this movie. He says, if

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anything happens to me and my family, an accident, an accusation, anything,

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then first your son will disappear.
His body will never be found.

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Then your wife her body will never
be found either. This is guaranteed.

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Then whatever is the most dangerous thing
you do in your life, it might

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be flying in a small plane,
it maybe walking into the bank, you

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will be killed. Do you just
see what I'm saying. I want you

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to acknowledge that you do understand,
so that we're clear and there won't be

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any mistakes. This is the line
that Matt Damon says to Prince Nassir.

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What are they thinking? What are
they thinking? They're thinking that it's running

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out, It's running out, and
ninety percent of what's left is in the

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Middle East. Look at the progression
Versailles Suez nineteen seventy three. Go four

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one, go four two. This
is a fight to the death. So

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what are they thinking. Great,
they're thinking, keep playing, keep buying

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yourself new toys, keep spending fifty
thousand dollars a night in your hotel room.

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But don't invest in your infrastructure.
Build a real economy so that when

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you finally wake up, they will
have sucked you dry and you will have

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squandered the greatest natural source in history. And here's something that prisoners here says

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when a country has five percent of
the world's population, but spends fifty percent

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of the world's military spending. That
country's persuasive power is in decline. The

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things that I love about this movie
is that it feels so real, it

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feels so lived in right. And
there's a reason for that, because Stephen

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Hagan did maybe the most expensive research
procedure of all time to be a guide

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to just write the movie script.
According to Wikipedia, while working on traffic,

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Stephen Gagan began to see parallels between
drug addiction and America's dependency on fore

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An oil. Another source of inspiration
came from nine to eleven and Gagan's lack

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of knowledge about the Middle East.
A few weeks after nine eleven, Steven

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Soderberg send gag in a copy of
XCIA officer Robert Bower's memoir See No Evil.

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Gagan met Bauer for lunch and then
for six weeks in twenty and two,

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they went to Washington, Geneva,
the French Riviera, Lebanon, Syria,

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Dubai. They met with lobbyists,
arms dealers, oil trade, Arab

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officials, the spiritual leader of Zebellah. Gagan said about Bauer that he had

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gone out there and done and seen
things that he was not allowed to talk

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about and wouldn't but he was angry
about and also trying to make amends for.

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Before any filming took place, Gagan
convinced Warner Brothers to give him an

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unlimited research budget and no deadline.
And I think I read in the research

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that they spent seventy thousand dollars.
That was the research budget. He did

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his own leg work, meeting with
oil traders in London and lawyers in washingtond

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c. And then he was kidnapped. At one point, moments after arriving

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in Bayrout in two thousand and two, Gagan was taken from the airport in

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a blindfold in hood where he met
with Sheik Mohammed Hussain fudd Lala, who

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was interested in films. This is
according to an article in Time magazine,

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quote very few screenwriters get kidnapped in
Hollywood, or most of them live in

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work. They're considered low value targets. But moments after arriving in Baby he

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tells it too. Stephen Gagan,
oscar winning right of traffic, found himself

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in what seemed to be a hostage
situation. His cell phone rang and the

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voice on the other end said I've
got something really special you can do,

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but you have to do it right
now, and I can't tell you what

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it is. Gagan walked down to
the airport and got into a car with

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a stranger. As they drove,
he was stripped of his backpack, pens,

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and belt and was blindfolded, hooded, and thrown into the back of

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another car. Gagan gave this quote. He said, there was a bad

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ten minutes there where I'm thinking,
you are really an idiot. You're like

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mister Magoo. You just wander over
to the Middle East and literally within the

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first twenty minutes get kidnapped and beheaded. World record. The abduction turned out

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to be standard procedure for anyone visiting
Shake Muhammad Hussein Fadlala, spiritual leader of

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the Lebanese Shiate militia Hezbillah, who
unbeknownst to Gagan, had an interest in

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movies and had decided he just wanted
to meet him. He's like, Hey,

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what's up. I just wanted to
talk to you. He will later

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also dying with men suspected of killing
former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafikiri and meet with

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former Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Pearl. Harrison Ford turned down the role of

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Bob Barnes, the role played by
George Clooney. He regretted it later he

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said, I didn't feel strongly enough
about the truth of the material, and

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I think I made a mistake.
He also turned down the role that was

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played by Michael Douglas in Traffic.
So Stephen Gagan must hate Harrison Ford.

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He must think that Harrison Ford as
it out for it or something. Can

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you imagine Harrison Ford and the George
Clooney part in this movie that would have

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been so interesting In general, movie
just had a ton of great parts for

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actors. Alexander Sediq plays a humanized
Arab kind of oil prince, which we

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have not seen really before or since. As far as I'm scerned, I

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can't remember a movie where we've seen
that or a TV series. In an

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interview with chud dot Com, Sadiq
said that the character he played was quote,

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the personification of the great missed opportunity. Here's the chance that America had

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to turn things around, if only
they hadn't been so angry they had given

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the contract to someone else. Clooney
also gave some great quotes about this film.

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You know, Clooney plays this world
weary role, and he clearly was

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weary in real life making the film. Quoting the Slash film on the weight

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gain of thirty pounds, Cluney said, the truth is it's not nearly as

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fun as it sounds. The idea
of putting on that kind of weight at

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the end of the day. In
general, that's what we do for a

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living. So my job was just
to eat as fast as I could,

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as much as I could, but
mostly you just ate until you wanted to

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throw up and made sure you didn't
throw up. So that was my job

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for a month, was eating.
George Cluney was extremely seriously injured making this

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film. He said, quote it
was my own dumb fault. I was

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taped to a chair and a guy
was pretending to hit me. It's all

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fake, you're not really getting punched, and I flipped myself over on the

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chair and I cracked my head and
tore what's called my dura, which is

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the wrapping around your spine, and
ended up with what they call c s

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F leak, which is a cranial
spinal fluid leak. Good fun. I

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highly recommend it for everybody out there, Cluney said, quote, I thought

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I had an aneurysm. It was
long drawn out. There was a couple

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of days of sitting in a room
taped to a chair and getting buckets of

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water, which isn't in the film
anymore. There's a lot more torture to

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it that you don't see. As
far as the politics of the film,

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Cluney said, I think it's sort
of important, although I've certainly been outspoken

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in times politically. I thought it
was important between good Night and Good Luck

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in Syriana, both films, that
the idea was not to be political necessarily.

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Obviously it's a political film, but
we show this to a lot of

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neocons who liked it and agreed with
it. Our argument, of course,

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is to raise the debate, not
to tell people what the answers are,

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because clearly we don't have any answers
for this, the issues or the problems

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which I agree with. By the
way, I think that if I think

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I could totally watch this with somebody
who's conservative and we could both get something

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out of it, and I don't
think it's like lecturing or anything like that.

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I think it is sort of politically
neutral. Clunya was so clutey considers

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suicide at one point because of this
movie. Quote You're Rolling Stone quote.

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I was at a point where I
thought I can't exist like this, I

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can't actually live. I was lying
in a hospital bed with an IVY in

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my arm, unable to move,
having these headaches where it feels like you're

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having a stroke, and for a
short three week period, I started to

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think I may have to something drastic
about this. You start to think in

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terms of you don't want to leave
a mess, So go in the garage,

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going the car, start the engine. It seems like the nicest way

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to do it. But I never
thought i'd get there. See, I

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was in a place where I was
trying to figure out how to survive.

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According to Rolling Stone, again,
Clooney turned to alcohol to help alleviate the

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pain and has since had surgery which
has helped. He still suffers from occasional

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headaches related to the accident. You
know, it's interesting and or obviously has

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been a huge success. People really
loved it, and I think that if

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you look at the plot in this
movie, which is about the migrant workers

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who are radicalized into becoming terrorists,
that is basically what happens in Andor likes.

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That's the story of Andor is people
who are normal people who don't want

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to have to deal with this stuff
and then are because of the circumstances of

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their lives, are eventually radicalized into
taking extreme actions. So I just thought

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it would you know, if you
really kind of unpacked that for a second

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and think about how radical that is, both for Andor and for this movie.

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You know, I just really like, I think that's real, right,

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So the humanization of the guys who
eventually you know, one of them,

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does they do like a suicide attack. You get where they're coming from

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because they're humanized. Now, one
reason people might not like this movie is

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because I'd say it's too confusing or
too dense. And this was something that

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MPR actually talked to Gagan about in
an interview with MPR, the interviewers said,

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it's a very dense plot. Many
people have already said they find it

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confusing, and you've said that you
wanted it to be intentionally confusing. Why

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is that? Did you think that
that wouldn't that it's more realistic that way,

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And Gagan said, well, I
wanted the first hour, you know,

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particularly to give you this feeling of
full immersion, like you dropped into

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a real world that has its own
rules and it operates in a way that

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feels to you the way the world
feels now to be alive today. And

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then he goes on to say,
in the second half of the film,

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I wanted you to feel these common
themes start to emerge, you know,

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like sort of ideas of very simple
shared humanity. That the world is very

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small, that a man who's in
a cave in Afghanistan can bring down the

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world trade centers. But the versus
true. The positive actions here, when

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the globe is woven so tightly,
when the fabric of the globe is so

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tight, the tiny positive pull on
thread here reverberates all over the world.

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The interviewer said, still, the
movie is pretty bleak. You've a pretty

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jaundest view of American interests as governed
primarily by greed and corruption. And I'm

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wondering did you wrestle with that idea
of portraying America and the Americans as the

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villains in this And Gagan said,
I don't think I do portray them as

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villains. I didn't do what America
tends to do, which is generated the

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answer and then go look for the
reasons. A guy from Kentucky lives in

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la and writes movies. I don't
have any agenda, I have young children,

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the stakes feel elevated. I'm concerned. I love my country. You

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know. All this stuff is really
basic and it's emotional. It matters to

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me. So if I'd gone out
and found a bunch of selfless people working

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for the common wheel, caring about
the weakest link of society, believing in

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representational government, believing that the smallest
voice is valuable as the loudest voice,

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I would have portrayed that. I
would have dramatized that exactly as I saw

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it. Unfortunately, that's not what
I saw. So the gag obviously kind

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of a tough career in terms of
produce credits posts Sirianna. For reasons unknown,

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they hired him to do the Doctor
Doolittle movie with Robert Downey Jr.

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And if you read the reporting on
that, a lot of the reporting is

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like they realized maybe he wasn't the
right person for that, which any Joe

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Shmo on the street with common sense
could have told you, this guy,

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you're gonna have to do Doctor Doo
a little make no sense. He's actually

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quite young still. I looked this
up. He was born in nineteen sixty

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five, which means he was around
forty when he made Sirianna, which can

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you imagine I'm getting close to forty. I cannot would be what an incredible

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accomplishment at that age. And he's
only in his late fifties now, so

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there's totally still time for him to
either make another film like this, or

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probably more likely a great HBO prestige
series like you know, the two movies

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that he did Traffic in Sirianna.
Today, those would be like eight part

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HBO shows and it'd be awesome.
So I really hope that Gagan gets the

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chance to do that because this movie
is so rare and it's I think as

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time has passed, it's become even
more impressive to me, and I sort

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of value it even more so.
If you haven't seen Syriana, I don't

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think anything I've said here has really
spoiled anything about it. I really encourage

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you to watch it, and if
you have seen it, I would love

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to know what you think. If
you're somebody who didn't like it, I'd

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love to know why too. You
know, I really don't understand why people

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didn't like this, but you know, obviously not ever taste. So that

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is that is my little jump into
Syriana. There. That is the show

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for today. As always, thank
you so much for listening. I have

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confirmed a cool upcoming guest, so
I can tease it. The director of

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the Skyline Films. So Skyline is
there's three movies and they're going to do

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a fourth movie, and particularly the
second and third movies are the ones that

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really are awesome, and we're going
to talk about a lot. So that's

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an episode that's gonna be coming up. I've got some other cool stuff coming

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down the pipe as well, so
yeah, a lot of good stuff kind

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of on the burner here. As
always, if you enjoy the show,

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please leave me a five star review
on Apple Podcasts. That's the best way

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to support the podcast, and you
can always reach out to me at benmore

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00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:13.320
Dan on Twitter, watch This Tonight
on Instagram, or watch This Tonight podcast

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on TikTok or join our Facebook group. Thank you so much for listening.

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Until next time, Bye,